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Any experience with "string of pearls" poop/feces?
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Any experience with "string of pearls" poop/feces? Reply with quote

I just picked up two nearly four-year-old long-haired female guinea pigs this weekend. They both had a lot of matted hair with caked on feces which I cut off. They were checked by my vet on the way home from getting them and one had the cyst on her side that was being treated checked and the other one was fine.

They had both been treated with Revolution before I left the home and I was going to wait to give them a bath. However, I ended up giving them a bath early since the one who was "fine" had what I thought was soft droppings/possible diarrhea. It turns out it is actually a "a string of pearls" ... the droppings are all attached with hair (I'm assuming) and there is clear to white liquid (consistency of water) in the rectal area. I am familiar with it in rabbits such as Angoras (possible blockage coming on) but I can't find anything in searching on GL or on the Internet. There are no other symptoms at this time and she is eating and drinking water normally.

Any info would be appreciated ... I do have a call into my vet.
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piggie mom



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 566
Location: NC

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tow of my boys had small strings of tiny dry poops when they were near "the end" so this thread caught my attention but they weren't white or soft. Good luck.
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your feedback. I spoke to my vet this morning and she thinks that it is mucloid enteritis, possibly induced by stress ... such as a new home, transport, bath. Daisy is to receive 0.75cc/ml of TMS/Bactrim twice a day along with Oxbow's Critical Care. [/url]
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Erin
What the fur?


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 3718
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also only dealt with that when pigs are ill.

I believe folks on GL say that this is indication of system shut down.
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah ... like in rabbits ... stasis. Will see what happens .. starting the meds now. Thanks.
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DodgerPig



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2574
Location: The Center of the Southland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mo had that the second time he stopped eating in February. He is doing better now, since his stones surgery.
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if it's not something a bit more complicated, not that stasis/enteritis isn't complicated enough. She stinks ... something Jasmine did not do when she had her severe diarrhea a couple of months ago and her symptoms are different ... Daisy has clear to milky water and globs of soft droppings along with strung-together droppings coming out of her rectal area whereas Jasmine just had diarrhea.
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Erin
What the fur?


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 3718
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way to know for sure would be to schedule a vet visit. Sounds like there is something going on internally other than simple stress induced runs. (which I've never seen, only sick pigs with runs)
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I called and asked for a vet visit but she's booked and only available certain days.

I did stop at the vet's on the way home with them on Saturday and had her and the other female checked (the other one has a cyst on her side that was being self-treated - as an abscess- by the other person). Neither one appeared to have the problem then ... I noticed it the next day (Sunday) and gave her a bath. She doesn't appear to be eating now and has lost weight since Saturday and is wheeking when picked up or the other one gets close to her. I just gave her 15cc of Critical Care but will need to watch for fecal output to make sure things are moving through the digestive system. I have them in a temporary quarantine cage that is smaller than what they were in before (a 3' x 3-1/2' C 'n C cage) .
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Talishan
Bridge Builder


Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 700
Location: Metro Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"She doesn't appear to be eating now and has lost weight since Saturday and is wheeking when picked up or the other one gets close to her."

This is concerning. Before that, though, we have had a handful of experiences with the string-of-pearls and/or mucoid globs, and it's not necessarily indicative of a terminal condition.

I believe it can sometimes be caused (or certainly worsened) by dehydration. What seems to help is lots of good quality, fresh, clean hay, a good-quality pellet, plenty of water and some (but not lots) of fresh vegetables ... consistently, day in and day out. Reglan may also help, though I wouldn't use it without a vet visit first.

Ours never had any bad odor associated with it, though.
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got back from the vet and Daisy has pyometra (infection of the uterus/pus in the uterus). At the moment she would not make it through surgery so the vet is trying to stablize her for surgery that is scheduled for Saturday (if she lives that long; I was told that she may die before then). She is to get 45cc of sub-q fluids along with Baytril once a day through the IV line. Metacam (0.15cc) is to be given once a day. She can have any food she wants at this point (she is not eating on her own and is being force fed up to 60cc of Critcal Care per day).
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Pigmama
X'd


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 712
Location: NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no. I hope she turns around! How terrible!

Get well Daisy!
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, huh? :(
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Pigmama
X'd


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 712
Location: NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor little thing! Where did she come from? Did the vet have any idea how long she has had this condition; how long it was overlooked?

I know nothing about the illness, but should research it since I have two sows of my own, for preventive measures, causes, etc.

Is she taking the Critical Care at all?
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She and another pig (who had a cyst on her side) were from a breeder that I was going to report. I drop in sometimes unannounced so I can see how things are ... she moved and things have improved greatly and she no longer breeds satins (as a result of reading some info that I gave her) but I suggested that she not breed at all and that she has too many. Plus I'll say "this one doesn't have any food, this water bottle is empty or leaking, this bedding is wet, this pig is starving to death (just one but it's fine now .. she does go to the vet with her pigs), etc."

I had been asked to take the ex-breeders several times but I wouldn't. I finally did this past weekend when I realized that there was still a problem with the "abscess" and they both had badly matted hair and feces attached to them. I stopped at the vet on the way home in case I needed to treat the "abscess" with antibiotics but it turned out to be a cyst. Daisy did not exhibit any symptoms at that time. Instead, it was the next day. The vet tonight got urine with blood in it and pus that was from the uterus.

She has taken the meds and Critical Care so far. She did not like the sub-q fluids and kept moving all around. I just put some wheat-grass clippings in their cage and she didn't touch any.
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Erin
What the fur?


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 3718
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If pigs are without basic necessities and are laying to die in a cage, this woman NEEDS to be reported.

Good Grief, Kathy.
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The (only) one that was dying was one that appeared to be visually healthy. However, when I picked her up, I felt how thin she was through her long hair. "She just had a baby." No, she is starving to death ... I put her in another cage and she ate and drank water non-stop. The interesting thing is that the person that she rented from had three counts of animal abuse against her [in another location] and the reason is that people found the gp breeder's horse stuck in mud and the horse had to be put down. What I was going to report her for, she has corrected.
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Bonnie



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 751
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you know the problem, but for others who said they've never seen this in anything but really ill pigs...

Sam had this for a long time, once she was gone, the autopsy showed she had Irritable Bowel Syndrome. If only we had known or had a way of knowing, we could've treated it.
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the addtional info ... forgot to add that it's open pyometra (open meaning the pus is draining to the outside rather than blocked and contained inside the body). There is/was no blood that shows on her white towels but it was seen when the urine/blader was expressed.
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TX Rustlers



Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we have piggies with these symtoms (gut stasis) we do the following. Give reglan to get the gut mobile, give simethicone if belly is gassey and would probably do metronidazole.
Aggressive hand feeding would also be in order, I alternate 1 cc syringes of Critical Care, vegan baby food and pedialyte
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input ... she's getting up to 60cc/ml of Critical Care currently supplemented with sub-q fluids with the antibiotics put in the IV line midway through the fluid (same line). She does not currently display any bloat or gas or any other symptom (per the vet) that would indicate an obstruction. I do have both Reglan and Metonidazole/Flaygl and also Propulsid but the vet doesn't want her to have any of it. (She is a very experienced vet who also does lots of rabbits, including those in stasis.)

When I came home at lunch today there was a bit of poop and I went to get some tissue to get it, watery pus/blood poured out onto the bathroom floor. The good (?) news is that this (open pyometra) is preferred since the bacteria is draining from the body rather than being trapped inside. Tonight she was drinking water from the water bottle but she isn't stable at all and could go at any time. I still have her with her cage mate; they are extremely bonded. If she makes it to Saturday/surgery/spay, she will go with her to keep her company. Have to go give the fluids and antibiotics now ... and tell her that "no one dies on my shift".

EDIT: midnight

Here she is eating some of the veggies. This is the first time that she has eaten something on her own for a couple (?) of days. Don't know if I mentioned it or not but she has lost over 100 grams. Another positive though ... she passed a normal "poop"/fecal pellet so maybe the veggies/CC will push more through.

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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think she will at least make it to the surgery on Saturday (before, I thought she was not going to make it0. She started drinking a bit of water on her own and totally inhaled the veggies that I went out and got last night. She also was cleaning herself last night and this morning. However, the only cure is a spay. So if she makes it to surgery, then the next step will be if she makes it through surgery and if they find anything during the surgery that warrants not continuing and/or putting her down, and then the last crucial step if she gets beyond that, is the immediate recovery period.
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Talishan
Bridge Builder


Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 700
Location: Metro Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the AB's (and draining) are doing the job.

Best wishes to you and to her tomorrow. Please keep us posted.
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DodgerPig



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2574
Location: The Center of the Southland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She is very fortunate to have ended up with you after the horrible situation she was in.
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Bonnie



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 751
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She's beautiful. Get well girlie!
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that it was a bit overwhelming to hear the problem and also dealing with it. In order to focus on what I needed/need to do I had to get my emotions out of the way and at first it was a bit difficult. I've had to do it with Jasmine off and on and also with Tyler, my rabbit: "treat now and stay in the moment and feel nothing and (possibly) collapse later".

Tonight I came home to find Daisy cleaning herself, eating hay. and drinking water. She inhaled her veggies and shrieked for more ... think she's been listening to and learning from Jasmine. I still have to give her the meds and fluids and more Critical Care tonight. Tomorrow she's to get her CC about 9am and then she heads to the vet about 11am for a 1pm surgery.

So unless something unforeseen happens, she will make it to surgery. Then the next step is the surgery and, if she gets through that, the recovery period. Will post an update tomorrow ... have to go give her various treatments for tonight.

Also .. the person keeps saying that I can bring her back (which will never happen). I don't think she really gets the concept of what she has and the fact that the surgery is a very high risk. (The surgery estimate for Emmy was 10 times the cost of a normal spay.)
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DodgerPig



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2574
Location: The Center of the Southland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the breeder you took her from understand that after the surgery she will have no uterus? Why does she want her back?
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skipperdoo



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course she knows that she will not have a uterus. Even though she is a breeder, she is not clueless. Her pigs are healthy except for a couple that have had problems and they have all been treated or had surgery: a tumor and stone are the only ones I can think of. None have mites and all are treated preventatively with Ivermectin or revolution (alternates). The issue is that she has 100 +/- pigs and cannot handle them all (because most of them are long-haired and not properly groomed).

She kept asking me to take the two pigs and I had specifically said that I did not want/need any pigs, particularly ones with special-needs. (Jasmine is a bit high maintenance with her various ongoing medical issues) ... Violet, the other one with Daisy, had an "abscess" (that turned out to actually be a cyst) that she was still treating. She apparently keeps her retired breeders unless she can find them an "excellent retirement" home.

The last time Daisy had a litter was March 27, 2006. However, the fact that she was bred is not why she has pyometra. A non-spayed female of any/various (?) species can get it whether they have been bred or not.

The purpose of my thread was to obtain any experience with/about Daisy's medical condition rather than focus on breeders. This breeder (the only one I know because she rescued a special-needs pig and asked if I could take him) is fully aware of the fact that I occasionally rescue pigs. She is also aware of the fact that I have helped my local shelter and that they and another shelter asked me to take a pig. She also is aware that I have reported a backyard breeder per my vet's request. However, just reporting people does not always bring about the desired results. Sometimes it takes education and that is what I am doing. I check regularly and have my camera with me and make comments when I feel that there should be some changes. There is nothing I can currently report her for since she has "cleaned up her act". I know my local animal control officer in charge of abuse/neglect cases so I can contact her for any info or suggestions if needed. I do regularly call to have things checked out and our local shelter goes out the same day.

The person (who turned out to be a backyard breeder) who had Jasmine was turned in but the animal control did nothing at first even though they sounded concerned. Finally they did check but only after calling the person first and then visiting. They believed the person rather than the vet. The location of this person was just a short distance from Cavy Spirit and one would think the animal control might be "enlightened". Another case involved someone in another state. A few of us were concerned about what was going on and contacted the local animal control. It took forever, and like the person that I am dealing with, she lived in a gated community. They also called first and found nothing wrong (her pigs were always dying) and she then ended up volunteering for them.

I realize that many people "hate" breeders but reporting them does not always bring about the results desired. Sometimes education is the way to go. This breeder has already changed many things that she has done in the past and she no longer breeds two breeds. I regularly suggest that she not breed at all or get the numbers down. Will she do it? I don't know .. only time will tell but at least the pigs in her care are living a better life than they were before. She is open to listening and maybe at some point she will have pets rather than breeding stock.

Back on topic ... Daisy appears to be stable enough to head into her surgery.
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mab0615



Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 1124
Location: Mass

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with the surgery. We'll be praying for the both of you.
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DodgerPig



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2574
Location: The Center of the Southland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck on the surgery.
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